What is it about the first three minutes of an interaction that scares us so much? Most guys with a little practice are able to open fine, but it is that first few minutes that really messes with our heads. In this time we seem to get commitment or not. So much of it is predicated on how committed we are. I can't stress that enough that our warm vibe and commitment will encourage their commitment. However this early part of the interaction is such a source of overwhelming anxiety for a lot of guys. The secret though is it is JUST as anxiety ridden for women. Remember they are not responding to you, they are responding to the truckloads of other guys who have hit on them every time they go out to a bar. They HOPE though that you are different, they have fantasies of being swept off their feet by you. So remember that.
So now with our warm vibe and bright smile we open. We melt their unsure demeanors and introduce ourselves. So now what? What do I ask? What do I say? The longer I think about it the more nervous i get. This is where the power of the open ended question comes in followed by the vacuum. I usually ask dumb questions i have to admit, right in that first few seconds. Completely AFC questions. Where are you from, How's your night going, Have you seen my gerbil, oops, maybe not that last one. I actually recommend you come up with some cooler questions then I do. However in reality it doesn't matter what you ask, it is how you respond.
The very first thing I do is relate to WHATEVER they say. I can't emphasize this enough. Too many guys get into question trains here searching for something they can relate to. There is a major imbalance in the interaction energy exchange that you may not be aware of. You came up to them, they acknowledged your presence, things are equal. You ask them a question, they answer quickly without a lot of detail. So of course since you didn't get much you ask another question. They answer tentatively. You still can't seem to get them to commit. Your vacuum is good but you are still getting short answers. Do you see how much more energy you are asking for them to give you then you are willing to offer? You have approached wanting to know them. You keep asking them questions. You are approval seeking at this point. You want them to give you a bunch of information about themselves to a complete stranger. YOU HAVE TO RELATE to what they say. Now is the time to answer your own question if they don't give you anything to work with. If they did give you something, relate to THAT. Relate to the emotion of your question or what they said.
You: Hi I'm SHH.
Her: I'm Tracy
You: How's your night going?
Her: Fine (She begins to look bored, can you blame her? What an AFC question!)
You: I have to tell you mine has been crazy! I love this town. I just had this weightlifter chick put me in a headlock and almost squeeze my head off with her guns. So don't get any ideas, i can see you work out! (this is where i put the AFC start into the grave). Honestly though she didn't actually put me in a headlock, but i was pretty scared. My guns are like Popeye's girlfriend, what's her name, Olive Oil? But seriously, you look pretty fit, what's your workout routine [Vacuum]
I am a bit of a goof ball so that may not work with you. So just be yourself with some fun energy. Even if your serious, relate with a STATEMENT. This statement models the kind of answer you expect to get back from her on the next question you ask.
You: Hi I'm SeriouslySuave.
Her: I'm Tracy
You: How's your night going?
Her: Fine
You: Mine has been great. I'm out with some new friends i just recently met. I just love when I get to go out with a crew of people that are new, It is so interesting to me to see how everyone acts in different social situations. So how do you all know each other?
The important thing is to relate with a statement so the energy exchange becomes equal. Once she knows something about you she will be much more likely to tell you more about her. In fact this is like a poker game. The more your willing to risk (showing your emotions and personality) the more she will match you.
Once you get something from her, you HAVE to reward her. In the seminar lately we have been pushing the words "I like you, you're______". This is a great reward, definitely use it! She says "Fuck Off!" I say "Damn girl, I like you, your feisty. Most women don't speak their mind. I admire that about you." If she doesn't melt after that don't give up. "So let me guess, like mother like daughter? I bet your Dad thought you women were a handful! But I like you, your fun." Rewarding her will make her want to tell you more. Just like active listening. If someone is silent i don't want to elaborate because i don't know if they are enjoying listening. If they reward me by an "absolutely", "that's interesting", "I never thought about it like that". I want to tell them more. The REWARD portion of this process is very important. It is not pavlovian, it is just showing appreciation for what they are giving you and keeps the energy exchange equal.
Remember the Reward & Relate loop doesn't have to be serious. You can have fun and be playful with it too!
If you are not rewarding and relating in the first three minutes of an interaction, the imbalance of energy will become so great the interaction will fall apart. Stop your question trains and reward and relate. That will make it easy to get to know them and keep everything going smooth.
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17 comments:
when your giving this kind of value, a whole chunk of it followed by another question, it reminds me off J.'s posts, specifically that gay Tom Selleck routine. I know you guys shun the word routine, because its set up a different kind of frame which isn't your intention. Have you just picked that up by osmosis, or has Juggler taught you some of that?
There are some similarities to Adamir, one of the best MASF posters. Lots of people use cocky comedy, but mostly, like Larry has observed, they are hanging off her (rather than providing value), C+F in response to her interest/questions. Where as Adamir *provides* value to keep the conversation going, and that could be said to be slightly Juggler.
I just want to be able to provide that value in the most effective way possible (seems you have cracked it).
If you've got any advice, or a magic bullet for improving this, I mean you hit the nail on the head that question trains are the result of people searching for an opportunity to relate, but what your doing here, is throwing that away when your not getting anything useful, and providing a great deal of value upfront. And that needs to be repeatable for when the conversation stalls.
Is this something you got from improv classes? I have a free weekly workshop in my city, and I should go, but is scares me you know, I feel all these theatre types, actors etc. will be all so advance.... stupid excuses.
And do you actually teach it in seminar, cos' in a way it is similar to routines, and I know juggler shuns all that these days. Often I wonder if that's just a pratical issue, most people being unable or insufficently committed to make their own. Yet this providing value is remarkably like routines with a different (immediate) purpose to it.
Would a fair analysis be to say: exaggerate an - on topic - event to cartoonish proportions?
As always enjoying you blog.
I have to admit i didn't quite understand the questions you were asking. I am not sure exactly how to answer your questions. Are you are asking about how displaying value fits into this method?
Value is somthing we treat a little differently. I don't ever try to demonstrate value. If i do unintentionally then it is always associated with relating to her emotions. We try to assume we have so much value we become approval giving rather than approval seeking. If your not careful a DHV routine can seem like you are looking for their approval. I assume i have so much value it will leak into what i say and i don't have to demonstrate it. I make my statements so that there are unexplained hooks in it. I don't explain my value because i am busy relating that my emotions are simmilar to hers. But she will often ask me about the unexplained hooks and then i tell her. Afterwards i ask her about her experiences that are simmilar.
Not sure if that answered anything so please feel free to elaborate on your questions.
Great fuckin post. You just keep pounding this into my head and its slowly starting to click day after day. I think the hardest thing to do is relate to a negative response and getting blown out. You did a real swell job of showing how to work with something like "Fuck off." I haven't ever been told that, but I have been blown out before and you don't know what to do cept just stand there or say something stupid.
If you didn't by now, please know that your blog is really helping the crap out of alot of people.
Hey thank you ren, That really feels great to hear. Thanks for reading!
I just talked to Wayne about Push Pull and wanted to make sure some of my ideas about push pull were in the same vein as Charisma Arts. I think Push Pull is more of a larger concept than just the structure of "I usually don't date blondes, but i'll make an exception for you." I'll think a bit about it over the weekend and try to get a post about it in next week.
If anyone has some ideas of websites i should email to try to get linked from, email me privately.. I would love to get the word out about the blog..
Awesome post dude, just as recenello pointed out greatly, it is starting to click day after day - You are making the world a sweet place dude :-)
anyway, I talk a bit slower then most people and also take quite a few pauses. From waynes ebook, the podcasts and now from your blog i learned to be more expressive, to live my words, to put myself in line. Whoa what a difference it makes, and it is a lot of fun.
However i have still havent got rid of a voice in my mind that tells me "this is TOO much, you trying to hard". I was wondering what is the line between "being expressive and fun" and "trying a bit too hard, and looking like a tv show host high on caffeine".
I keep relating, and putting myself out for rejection, but this freaky voice is still there.
Is this familiar to any of you?? Dan??
Thanks a lot guys,
IAM
I use value in the sense of how you use energy I guess, you say accurately there needs to be an equal exchange of energy in the interaction, which is proufnly different from the idea most people having routines have.
Well when she's not freely giving energy and thus something you can relate to, you invest a good deal of enerfy (or value) upfront, here with your fanciful tale of having your head squeezed off by the Bluto woman.
'You: I have to tell you mine has been crazy! I love this town. I just had this weightlifter chick put me in a headlock and almost squeeze my head off with her guns. So don't get any ideas, i can see you work out! (this is where i put the AFC start into the grave). Honestly though she didn't actually put me in a headlock, but i was pretty scared. My guns are like Popeye's girlfriend, what's her name, Olive Oil? But seriously, you look pretty fit, what's your workout routine?'
I suppose in one way, the reason this is so great is your grounding your interest, 'your fit' but taking a genunine interest in that.
Also its manic, head spinningly breathless: 'My guns are like Popeye's girlfriend, what's her name, Olive Oil?', this is winning.
I think my question is that sad cliche 'how do you come up with your ideas?', I don't want ideas, but any shortcuts would be *loved*
I was just listening to Woody Allen, and one of his routines he says 'I have a rich fantasy life' and that seems to be the key for Jugglers and your's up front value demonstrating gifts, you take a banal question and show how it could be answered in an exciting manner, then give her another chance to commit to the interaction, having shown, or more correctly given some value, or energy or committment or whatever.
Incidentally rereading the second half, I generally find blatant rewarding, ala Dawson Creek, 'I like you for whatever reason', does not work.
'Damn girl, I like you, your feisty' anything like that, and your in the shit. A while ago I attempt to qualify a girl 'your sassy I like that' 'heard that before, what else?'; I thought I was qualifying, prior to that, she had mainly been chasing me with questions, then soon as I start rewarding interest dies. Its just not sophsticated enough. In fact its AFC-direct and does not work, I like you, so please like me. It may get a good reaction, I mean its freely given validation, it will not in most cases get a number, I've done it a billion times. +1, and stupidly reverted.
"So let me guess, like mother like daughter? I bet your Dad thought you women were a handful! But I like you, your fun.'
In a way this is what I want, the abillity to keep spinning it out, thereby making the assertion seem more genunine, (rather than a weak coping mechanism) which was possibly why I got shot down by the girl.
But on the other hand this encourages her to give you more grief. I mean that's what you like about her right? MASF tells you its unwise to praise facets you don't like, or she will think they're winning and flaunt them.
[Basically sassy or cocky is the prediliction of breaking rappor to get laughs, but you have to recover rapport from it, this is hard, hence I have difficulty liking sassyness.]
I want it easy, when you make it easy, I say it doesn't work.
Ahhhh, I'm terrible. ;)
It's really the effort your putting in right?
You give this big bit of advanced effort and its great if its to the standard of your Bluto passage, but it not neccessary to be to that standard. Maybe your effort is only to a standard which will win some more time with her, but ultimately shes humouring you cos' she wants someone whose effort & relating is intellectually superior or funnier, but that doesn't matter, just putting in the effort, however unpolished, activates a basic reciprocation mechanism, which at the very least get her to commit to spending some more time with you and thus give you more opportunity.
Is this fair thinking?
That's liberating somewhat I suppose. Let go of improving quality and focus on just trying.
The alternative is amazing routines where you will hook her for a time, but will eventually lose her, possibly after a longer period than JM, but as Style described all the people running round using his routines, and still not getting laid, in the game. And the Mystery clones. Cos' their normal quality of effort, was way below that which hooked a girl (with routines), and their focus is incorrect, on collecting routines, so harmful to improving that effort.
Still I want ways to make the effort I put in, in advance of her returning it, of a higher quality.
One way is to have a set series of opening questions and if I get nothing worth relating to, then to answer them with a scripted higher quality effort, but that's not sustainable over the entire length of the conversation.
How can I improve the quality of the 'effort' I put in and move toward the standard you have?
Yet another quality post!
Thanks!
Hey Dan,
This is just what I was looking for! You so money and you don't even know it! I can't wait til I go practice this weekend.
I see you guys talking about Juggler...that reminds me, thanks for helping me get in touch with him this weekend. I learned a lot from hanging out with him.
Money
Whoa i get home and boom, lots of comments. I love it. Thanks so much for reading everyone. I'm sure there will be a point where i won't be able to answer every question i get but for now i'll try my best. keep the comments rolling.
Freaky Voice:
I used to have this voice a lot. I still have my internal dialogue but I don't let the insecure voice have the floor. I just commit to being who i am am go with it where ever crazy place it brings me.
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Other questions:
Using value instead of energy is somewhat simmilar. Don't show more value than she has shown you. On the other hand if you want her to show some value you will have to show some of yours. I suppose that works. I like to think of value=emotions. Women see the more we show our emotions in a high value confident way the more value we have to them. So it can be simmilar.
As for my material i just turn off that part of my brain that says, "don't say that it would be stupid" and then commit to it. If it is over the top i take my palm as if i was writing something on it and motion with the words "ok, don't tell that story again.. ever..." guess that might be lost in text but oh well.
The important part is to be yourself. I'm not funny, I'm goofy. Wayne's funny. Kory is just over the top with energy, and Chad is quiet and reserved but disqualifies a lot. You have to find the way that works for you. Even if your not funny but you can reward and relate it works. Keep checking back next week because i'll write a blog on playfull teasing and flirting using push pull.
As for being interesting it is all about adding emotions and details to your stories.
The reward has to be genuine and it has to be on her high point. If your not genuine then it won't work. If you say "I like you" on your high point it will turn her off. If she has done something to deserve an "i like you" and you tell her why, i doubt it would go over poorly. Unless your whole interaction is based on you approval seeking. If you like fiesty girls tell them so, if you don't then say something like:
"your fiesty, i admire that, some guys really like that." When she catches the hint that you don't and asks about it say something like, "I definetly admire your spunk, but i like to get to know someone without those walls of defence. I bet your a really cool person, tell me something about yourself that most people don' know." Being confident and unphased throughout the interaction is the key though.
I think you are starting to get the idea with the effort comment.
The quality of effort is really about being genuinely interested in talking to them because you want to get to know them, not just because they are hot.
My only reccomendation is it seems from your writing your communication is a bit disjointed. You jump around a lot with topics and ideas. I don't know if that is how you speak or not. But i would practice headlining your statements and stories with the main idea. Then fill in the details with emotions and feelings. Then wrap up your story, question, statement, with a summary.
its like a writing class would teach. You will become a better communicator and the effort you do put in will be more focused. Of course i could be totally off base, i have only read a few of your comments, so take this advice with a grain of salt..
hope that helps a bit.. Good luck
SHH
Yes, thanks for replying, most constructive response. yes I didn't reward on her high point, hence the attitude. That's accurate.
work was boring and I thought about it a lot, the idea is
1. answer your own question
2a. do this as fully as you can
2b. make it as interesting as you can, if describing an event exaggerate either your response (OMG the poor thing, I might have to give it mouth to snout resuccitation / should I jump, should I take the broom and polevolt...)
or exaggerate the possible consequences of the event (weightlifter chick put me in a headlock and almost squeeze my head off with her guns.)
this gives what you are saying a twist of unreality and so will get her smiling/grinning.
3. Ask another question.
I was also thinking of a date last night, which I felt for sometime shredded JM, I met the girl for the day2, ask some dumb question like 'what do you do?' and she said 'let's not do that'. YIKES!
So of course, I didn't and I went into a canned story, after which she started seeking rappor with me using those same dumb AFC questions she had scorned earlier, cos' I had demonstrated some value. But, upon reflection, it is not so inconsistant with the 'putting in energy' principle, she needed me to put some energy in upfront, then she reciprocated as best she could as per the SHH energy exchange model.
Seems to me that a lot of it comes down to practicing *expressing* being genuine. The thoughts and emotions are there, waiting to be accessed, but some dark clouds in your brain stop you from doing it.
Today i was out walking today, and i saw this two cute girls who dressed themselves really creatively.
Me: I like your guys style, it really called my attention.
Girl: Really (said in a kind of cold way)
Me: Yeah, I m thinking about working a bit on my style, and i would love some indications. Where do you guys shop for clothing?
Girl: You know fleet markets, there is a shop right down the next street.
They both turn around and cross the street.
Thinking back now, i see i wasnt genuine. The genuine way would go like.
"Hey i like you guys style. I m just bored from seeing all girls trying to look the same. You guys are so different and colorful that i find inspiring. I wish i could have you both as my fashion consultants. Where do you guys shop for clothing?"
Looking back, that was exactly how i felt in the moment, i just had trouble accessing it. Seems that it all comes down to accessing your own honesty and showing it fully committed.
Dan....how long does it take you to relate/reward back when she gives you something?
I have the feeling that if i had one extra second to breath and acess my true feeling in the moment, things would go a lot smoother.
I'm really glad you told me about your blog earlier today. At the time I was thinking it was a "I just want someone else to read my blog" type crap, but this is actually really good stuff. In fact, this is the only PUA related blog that I can actually read through. I read the first couple months, and then have 3/4 of this months stuff. Amazing.
Thanks
-That guy you met at Barnes and Noble that knew you weren't really just poker buddies
I have the feeling that if i had one extra second to breath and acess my true feeling in the moment, things would go a lot smoother.
IAM
2 things strike me about what you said,
you should have said WHY they caught your attention, what specific garment, as Juggler says 'own it with specifics'
compliment openers communicate desperate interest unless you ground them immediately, don't give them a chance to react negatively.
"I just bought a jersey in those exact same colours.
I got that for my ex's/sisters girlfriends, so we've both got great taste, its just a shame about your shoes."
I really liked the way you followed up 'I like your style' with a follow up statement, spinning it out is moving in the right direction methinks.
But reading this blog, it would seem JM says to do focus/floppsie openers in day, go where their thoughts are, pace their reality then take it out from there. So essentially you need them to be interacting with the environment (or about to) in some way, they were thus unapproachable at that point. Even Mystery feels this way, having stalked girls down streets till they've stopped at their destination.
Kong
Riiiight bro!! You made a great point about the using this specifics. I can see it bringing me to a new level on making statements once i got more practice with it.
Currently, doing it is not easy at all. In the ebook juggler goes on describing a salad. Holy shit, i dont see my self doing that, that kind of detailed visual wording is really clouded, hidden and locked inside my brain. Starting from now i m aware of it tho, thanks :-)
Also, that was not how i opened them. I most of time have difficulty with the flopsy/focus opener. Honestly, I feel kind of uncofortable opening a girl like that, a bit sleazy and not genuine. But that is just me. Most of time i open with "hi" and then something direct.
On the other hand...haha, the time that i went the fartherst with a day time girl (i went for the kiss, she swearved and never called), i used a kind of focus opener.
How you guys see this??
I don't think it's a problem with your opener, I think it's just something you need to calibrate. Maybe she just wasn't ready for a kiss yet. Did you reward, SOI and kino with a touch b4 that?
I really liked this post! The first three minutes of an interaction is what I'm most anxious about, and this post really explained how to do it. I can totally see myself going out and saying what you say in your examples.
You should use examples whenever you can. It makes everything so much easier to understand.
Thank you for an excellent blog!
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