Entering in the community there is a lot of talk about the power dynamics between Men and Women. Most men supplicate and are "AFC", and don't show their true inner confidence. Women "shit test" to lower your value and so you don't buy into their "frame" and instead learn to "qualify" them so they will take your frame.
Personally i feel like James Bond reading all of these interactions. You must Isolate the Target after disarming the Obstacle, all while DHV'ing, and negging so it IOD's her. Goodness, I am glad social interactions really aren't like being a SPY.
In this community i have seen a lot of guys learning to deal with the power dynamics instead of the social dynamics in interactions. The community teaches that women want strong men who can lead. That is absolutely correct. It also teaches we should not roll over and "supplicate" to women. This is also correct in a lot of instances. However this is brought way too far.
An example of this. A friend of mine had a date with a girl for drinks. He came over to her house and while they were getting ready to go out she asked him if he could help her mover her couch. He did not want to supplicate so he said, "Only, if you give me a back rub." She was like "Maybe, but can you help me move this couch first?". He continued insisting she had to agree to the back rub before he moved the couch with her. In fact she finally gave up and moved the couch herself while he stood there and watched. We talked about this and he knows now, he was really just being an asshole. You can always used implied trade, "Sure, i'll help, but you owe me a back rub later." Then help her.
The drive in this community to not supplicate is so overboard. Yes guys shouldn't be little pansies and do anything a girl wants, however being a decent helpful human being is far more attractive. Just make sure the interaction is EQUAL. Imply she needs to do something for you later, but don't force her to commit to it. If she is hesitant later then you can use that as fodder for making it playful and fun while teasing her about it.
The power dynamic for men since high school has been that attractive women held all the power. The fact is we resented that for a long time. Now comes along the community where you can take back your power. Guys get power mad and now like a geek who becomes a cop and is overbearing with his authority, we are wielding that power incorrectly. We hold it over women's heads just in revenge for the way we felt when we were younger. Misogynistic tendencies creep up as we hear the same stupid response to our canned stories and they go to bed with us even thought they have a boyfriend.
You can very easily begin to hate women and objectify them when running game on them. If you are not finding out what truly makes them unique then you are going to see them all the same and dehumanize women. Canned material in my opinion promotes seeing women as the same because of course they will respond similarly to a scripted interaction. How boring to have the same conversations and interactions all the time. How can you truly see women as anything else other than objects for sex if you don't constantly strive to see them for who they are.
So these are just some of my opinions. I want to strive to be someone who sees the individual beauty in every person i meet. I want to destroy my preconceptions of who they are. I am going to drive the interaction but i want to share in the power and allow it to be equal. What gives me the advantage is that i am the one who knows how to confidently take control and guide the interplay of conversation.
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'Misogynistic tendencies creep up as we hear the same stupid response to our canned stories'
Ah, really, now I thought laughter was the most civilised sound in the world.
Actually some dead actor did, but never mind that.
We LOVE you despite your anti-mysognistic tendancies Dan!!
I personally think that the models of seduction and related vocabulary are useful to create a mental model to better understand the interactions between sexes. But I think that so much guys doesn´t really understand what's behind all these. They apply techniques without any context or the proper mindset. When I tried to apply Juggler Method, I had poor results until I realized that the very core of JM was the mindset: when I have the correct mindset all the method have congruency and the techniques flow naturally. The mindset IS crucial. I think canned stories and such have a place, but being natural and genuine have much better results, in the long run and in other areas besides seduction. I'm grateful that Dan have this blog as a resource, as I tried to find info about this stuff in other sites, but I sincerely can say that all is having sense to me since I'm reading here; I'm finally understanding the mindset or "frame" or core of JM (by the way, Dan do you think it could be I proper theme for a future blog entry?)...
regards
Sure, i'm not quite sure i fully understand. Are you asking about writing about a blog about the mindset to be successful with the juggler method?
Dan knows very well that women are not that unique.
They are mostly boring cunts.
There's no hate or bitterness as I say that. Those are not emotionally-charged words. And I'm not being disrespectful to women by saying that.
Let's be objective here.
The only reason why we care about their "uniqueness" is that THEY NEED IT. They need to put on a show, pretending that they are "above the vulgar pleasures of the flesh", that the main reason men appreciate them is for "who they are", and that sex is only a chance byproduct of you being a man and her being a woman.
It's a lie.
They're acting like this for our benefit, though. They want us to feel that we value what we get from them.
They reckon: "Sex is cheap. If a guy wants just sex, he only needs a cunt. Cunts are everywhere. Me, however, I'm selling something better. Sex with an intelligent, funny, fascinating girl - that's a rarity".
Oooh-kaaay.
Of course, there is some truth to that. The more reasons you have to like the girl, the better the sex is. And she has better sex too if you really like her. We tend to like people who like us.
And, after all, isn't that the same thing that WE are trying to do too? We want to get women to see us as more than just another dick. Life would be pretty dull otherwise.
So everybody has everything to gain, and nothing to lose, by pretending that girls are unique.
It probably doesn't hurt if we men also believe that. We come across as more genuine.
It's just that we should not delude ourselves about it:
When we say they are "unique", we are just PACING their twisted reality, for our own demented purposes.
Larry.
Thank you for your comments and participation in our discussion. You are more than entitled to your opinion. Please don't include me in it though.
I look for what is unique in the old hag i am talking to that works as my waitress. I look for what is unique in my cab driver as i talk to him. I look for what is unique in every person i meet because it makes ALL of my interactions more fun and enjoyable. That is why I personally do it.
If you are only looking for what is unique about a girl to get in her pants she will sense you are not genuine if she is an intelligent high value woman.
I enjoy talking to people, and i work daily on cultivating that genuine interest in all people. I do that by finding the uniqueness about everyone i meet, not just women.
All of you have to find your own path to what you want. The path i am laying out is not THE method, it is just a method that worked for me. The rest are just my opinions and ramblings.
Regarding to your question, yes, basically is that. I'm curious to know what is the mindset you use when applying JM. As I tried to explain (excuse my English, it's not my native language), to me is not about techniques or steps only, but it's also the mindset you have when interacting with women and people in general, which I consider crucial. As I understand from your writings, basically your mindset or frame is that you really have a genuine interest in other people and enjoy being social, so if a person wants to be successful with JM he needs to develop that mindset or something similar, otherwise vacuums, push-pulls and such could be completely useless. I was wondering if is that simple, or it could be justified to explain it in a more detailed form in a blog entry...
regards
'If you are only looking for what is unique about a girl to get in her pants she will sense you are not genuine if she is an intelligent high value woman.'
Not if you have authority/high perceived value. Cold readers are not genunine, but women take their generalisations as phychic readings, addressing their unique experience. Your wiping out a lot of women as not 'intelligent and high value' by that statement. A lot.
For most people I think cultivating genunine interest may be the easiest/best route to a better social life. And society considers it a more healthy attitude than the brilliant pretenders.
Dan understand we love you blog, and your ramblings, we just love a little controversy too.
I think myself I shall be more mindful of my comments. Dan seems to be so open and honest with everyone in his life, if there are non-community people from his social life who read this, then they may question Dan's value based on the unorthodox views expressed in these comments & thereby reflecting on him. But maybe that makes him a stronger man.
I've read Larry assert this several times, and find it in Jame's first LR and I agree. It's gonna be rejected here cos' he used the word 'cunt' which is mysognisitic vocbulary.
I can reword this is in less emotional terms.
Larry says seduction can be broken down into 2 things:
1. be interesting
2. be interested.
JM rejects the neccessity of the former (at least up front, you demonstrate through your relating).
Larry's thinking goes, if your interesting (1.) she will want to sex you.
This is not so different from juggler.
On the podcasts J. says every time you meet a woman, in the first few moments she is thinking about having sex with you. i.e. women are sexual creatures, not sexless creatures that have to be won over to sex.
Larry then says the difficulty is, giving her an excuse to do what she wants. An excuse she can give or show to her peer group, or maybe just herself. she has to feel/or show that she has been 'won over'.
His solution:
You have to be interested, if you can find something unique about her, she can present to her friends that your interest in her is for her uniqueness not due to horniness/a hot body. Incidentally I agree with SHH here that, women who do not need this excuse are likely to make less desirable partners - STDs if nothing else. Larry's take is that searching for something special, far from being a silly waste of time, is a good thing, cos' it makes for a steamier consumation. [I wouldn't know].
In summation:
I really see little difference here. Both Juggler and Larry are saying women are sexual creatures. And both Juggler and LArry think it neccessary to find a reason to like her, to continue to bed/a relationship.
The difference between Juggler and Larry is Larry is being very uncouth about it!
L. bashing
Apparently womens motives are deluded but benefit us. Passing judgement on motives ('deluded') is not beneficial, and is KJing.
Either a womans ACTIONS are beneficial, then yay! Or they work against our progress and they have to be dealt with (for instance through disqualification).
Understanding motive does not help.
PUAs create models and techniques for reality, not motive deriven laws. Style is always saying 'I don't know why this works, but it does'. And always, even before the book, seemed disinterested in those debates, instead just enjoying women in all their bonkerness. Passing judgements on motive is unhealthy (but so tempting!), humility is far healthier. Master your mind Larry!
BTW Dan, your friend is hilarious. That must have been an awkward moment when she refused! Can you like bug his clothes or something in case he does it again?
KONG.
Just to make it clear i welcome every and all comments. Don't feel you have to censor yourselves on my blog. I like all the interesting opinions on this thread, even if they are different then mine.
Wow Larry! You say:
" Dan knows very well that women are not that unique.
They are mostly boring cunts.
There's no hate or bitterness as I say that. Those are not emotionally-charged words. And I'm not being disrespectful to women by saying that."
But you cannot make a comment like that and make me believe that you are not emotionally charged or disrespectful. The proof is in your words. It would be like saying, "All niggers are lazy and live on welfare. But I am not racist, I am just being objective."
Do you see how saying that you are not what you words asserts you ARE, actually proves that you are disrespectful and bitter.
I have really chewed on my views about this whole game thing and have come to the conclusion I came to a long time ago, you get what you deserve. If Larry thinks women are boring cunts, well then so be it. But if I were to choose between someone like Dan who can be genuine with an 80 year old crone and his cab driver over a smooth operator (like maybe Larry is) then, Dan would have me every time.
Hi Shannon,
I realize that it's hard to imagine how somebody can say such words in a detached manner.
Yet this is exactly what I have seen in most (if not all) successful naturals that I met in the last year.
While they were gallant towards women, they all retained a certain superior smile that made the women slightly confused (and attracted).
Best,
Larry.
Larry,
You are onto something, even if you initially phrased it in a way sure to turn off the critical thinking needed to get it.
So boring cunt comments aside, let's take a look at what I understand you to be saying.
Guys who are good with women DO have the ability to appreciate the hell out of them without being overwhelmingly impressed with their beauty and charm. You are dead-on with this.
The key to enjoying women is to get that they, unlike men, do NOT seek to impress others. They don't brag. They don't (in most cases) ruthelessly pursue accomplishment. They may seek fame and adulation, but only as it relates to love and attention (and it's very rare to find a girl with a healthy self-esteem who does this... date some models and actresses to see what I mean).
Women seek safety, harmony, and feelings of love and affection. They do not need to be seen as better than anyone else. In fact, women are like the trees of the old Rush song (damn my teenage musical taste), uncomfortable unless everyone is equal, even if it must be by hammer, axe and saw.
One thing I've found to be true of every woman I've ever known is they want to be special to YOU. Not to everyone. In fact, that makes them feel very uncomfortable. They want you to see the secret brilliance they work so hard to hide from the world (yes, the boring cunt part is largely a facade used to filter out the easily impressed).
If you can see past her screens and remember that underneath the $300 Jimmy Choos, the $300 highlights, the $200 makeover, the $500 dress and $600 bag there is still a little girl who just wants her Daddy to hold her and tell her she's sweet and keep her safe and warm in the world (and still play with her and to spank her to keep things fun), she can let herself show. And you'll be amazed how much fun, creativity, and flat-out freaky fun sexiness there is underneath.
Keep up the great writing, Dan!
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